I have a theory that at least some of them haue never experienced silence, between muzak everywhere, earphones, and similar sources of irritation. A side effect is that they genuinely don't know how loud they are. I would recommend trying some meditation or at least listening to the sounds of silence... and turning off the YouTube, TV, and other noisemakers. Of course, I'm not sure anyone would hear me...
I shouldn't be, but I remain surprised at the number of people with airpods wedged into their ears as they "go for a walk." They want to be "out in the natural world" I suppose, and yet they replace sounds of the natural with the "playlists of their lives." Ugh
Yes, and as pointed out elsewhere in the comments, it's unsafe. If I am driven to wear headphones/earbuds for some reason in public, I never have more than one ear covered. Even that's highly unlikely, but if you have both ears occluded anyone can come up on you and you'll never know.
I truly hate noise pollution. Strangely enough, some sociologic types have made efforts to connect a love of peace and quiet with racism or classism. About three years ago, Xochitl Gonzalez wrote an essay for the Atlantic titled "Why Do Rich People Love Quiet?" defending noisy ethnic enclaves and stating, "The sound of gentrification is silence." Then she made the mistake of complaining about noise making it difficult for her to work. Social media was not kind to her. (She seems to have deleted her comments about this.)
Gah, Alice! I had to go and google Xochitl Gonzalez.
Her 2022 seminal and viral essay "Why Do Rich People Love Quiet?" on Gentrification of Noise explores the relationship between class and noise and the desire of the wealthy to impose their norms on others. It was a finalist for the Pulitzer Prize and it inspired a study at the University of Connecticut that tracked the movements of Latine and white students on campus to measure their preference for noise. In 2025, Gonzalez coined the phrase "Comfort Class," a term to describe "people who were born into lives of financial stability" whose "disconnect from the lives of the majority has expanded to such a chasm that their perspective—and authority—may no longer be relevant."
I guess we must be these intolerant rich people gray man types like the image in Xochitl's article: https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2022/09/let-brooklyn-be-loud/670600/ Rich, judgmental, racist, xenophobic, ethnocentric, classist, intolerant.... No, I don't think so. I recall as a small child in the 1950s my parents muttering "some people's children" and know exactly what they meant and not wanting to be like those kids who poop where they eat. Kittens and puppies learn manners. Why can't kids? I don't think it is too far-fetched to say that Western Civilization depends upon it.
While the rest of the trip was substandard for Obvious Reasons, one of the few things I liked about being in Saudi Arabia and Iraq back in '91 was that we were only maybe 50 or so miles from the middle of nowhere (where nowhere was defined as the Arabian Peninsula). I can remember getting off of the helicopter at our first assembly area there, doing a slow 360, and realizing that I was the tallest terrain feature as far as my eye could see.
We'd (obviously) have to stand guard overnight, but being out there in the silence and just being able to soak it in... And the stars at night were absolutely spectacular. No light pollution. No sound pollution. That small part of it was almost worth the price of admission.
The other thing that gets me is that so many of these people (if they're not listening to their music loudly enough to annoy) have earbuds/cans over their ears. Like I said on one of Ian's posts a while back - your ears are the only mid-distance, 360 degree sense you have. Women in particular need to be aware of their surroundings, and the number of them that I see hunched over in their hoodies with headphones on would be enough to drive my old Hapkido master to distraction. There are those out there that say bone conduction headphones are okay, as they don't interrupt sound coming in. In my opinion, they're better for situational awareness, but still not good. Your brain (consciously or not) is going to be distracted by the music and is not going to be actively listening.
Correcting (probably) unintentional rudeness is not rude in and of itself. It is a public service.
Morality and the rules of common behavior must be trained and enforced.
Way back when, military theaters used to play the national anthem before the show began. Everyone was expected to stand up, doff hats (if any), remain, silent, and salute. Teenagers who failed to do so were smacked by whomever was handy.
I live adjacent to https://www.acltweb.org/ and I have often noticed the same things. I usually walk alone with my hound, and other than giving him quiet commands I enjoy my silence. I am amazed at how loud some groups are.
Although it would be preferable if people didn't talk loudly while walking outdoors - including certain of my family members who, sigh, probably don't realize how loud they are, and yes, you continue to exist if you stop speaking for a while, and announcements of, "There you go!" as if I'd asked for something are really annoying, so please stop projecting ... um, where was I ...
Oh, right: I think there's a difference between "humans conversing live" and any kind of artificially generated noise, including one side of a phone conversation. It's nice if the former has a lower volume - so many people are in denial about their hearing loss, speaking of family members - but at least it's natural sound produced by carbon-based life forms.
Preach! We hates it, too. People in public having full-volume phone conversations (extra points of they have it on speaker). People watching videos in the waiting room at the dentist etc. The kids fixated on noisy screens at the grocery store is nuts, especially if they're big enough to be walking around and helping.
Different strokes and dynamics. I love silence and just the birds or critters scritching in the undergrowth myself. The sound of a totaly quiet house.
Sadly my house has a wife that cant sleep without the white noise of a fan and children that will turn tv on as background noise, though they say they are watching it as they draw or do stuff on their phone. Its a constant battle to keep the noise levels to a low rymble. I try to be fair about it as they live here too. 😀
For my wife its survival white noise, for me it is anti survival as it limits my hearing whats happening outside at night.
Life is a compromise i have found usually no one is perfectly happy but no one wants to kill the others either.
I do enforce quiet time for evenings around 830 ish where tv goes off and head phones are mandatory or switch to a book.
As for public noise. It can be very very intrusive. Courtesy on the trails, i would bet the majority dont know the unweitten rules, probably a lot dont even know the written ones. I know i wasnt aware of at least one you mentioned being a problem.
Maybe write a small phamplet on trail etiquette and silently hand it offenders with out a confrontation and keep moving. Education might reduce your incidences you deal with over time. Even better maybe see if city/ park etc would be ok with a nice wooden plaque or sign with suggested Courtesy and safety rules set at head of trail/s
Please pass pedestrians on bike in safe manner
please use head phones or earbuds instead of boom box
please talk in low/soft voice on trails to not scare wildlife away.
Not sure what it all would be but i bet a lot dont even know there are unwritten reles much less what they are
I think there are 2 issues going on simultaneously. For sure, one of them is the absolute discourteousness of others who drown you in their unwanted sound. But the other is more personal - the level at which my mind is over-stimulated and I can no longer process normally (or at all). This is probably at different levels for different people - mine is quite low.
(((Cedar))) rude. Yes. Were they rude first? Yes. Is that a kindergarten way of dealing with this issue? Yes and no IMO - people who object to needless noise (count me in) need to speak up as politely but firmly as they can! And I think this was as polite was you were able to be at that moment. I am sure that many noisy people simple don't know they're being too noisy - they're surrounded by it in their daily lives, and have turned up their voices and their music so they can hear it - I think most people would apologize and turn it down if nicely asked. We've all snapped. Don't dwell on it. You're not wrong that their noisiness was inappropriate!
every year I have a hearing test at work. every year they point out to me that I have severe hearing damage. and every year I smile and say yes. I have noticed. if you can't get the world to shut up, shutting it out is perfectly legitimate
At 125dB it is if encountered outside a concert venue or your sound-proofed basement or SUV. I am mindful of Radio Raheem in the 1989 movie, Do The Right Thing, which the critics deemed one "of the greatest films of all time". I disagree, though it might have been a good PSA or documentary. Under the ADA I'm claiming my misophonia as justification. ☺
My 80 ish year old neighbor cranks the music in his car. As he goes down the shared drive you can feel the bass in the house. It transient. Just a few seconds ... so not really irritating. Does let us know he is still alive every few days.
Similarly, there are us geezer drivers who leave our turn signals on for miles and miles. The problem in both cases, Grumpy, is that the driver is deaf. I can't hear the solenoid clacking that makes the blinker blink and your neighbor just wants to hear his 8-track tape of Carmina Burana. I have more patience with geezers than small children these days.
We grew up pretty poor and drove beaters with one ear tuned to the sounds the car made going down the road. The idea was to catch something "going wrong" before it really broke. Then we'd head home, report in to the mechanic (Dad) and do something about fixing it. I still listen to the car even though that requires hearing aids these days. Drives my wife crazy. She was a singer and in theater. Always has the volume up and signs along ...
Missing the point, I think. I say again for clarity: "A song or music at 125dB is noise pollution if encountered outside a concert venue or your sound-proofed basement or SUV."
Mi kredas, ke mi maltrafas la ĉefan punkton. Mi ripetas por klareco: "Kanto aŭ muziko je 125dB estas brua poluo se oni trovas ĝin ekster koncertejo aŭ via sonizolita kelo aŭ sportkamioneto."
Creo que no lo has entendido. Lo repito para que quede claro: "Una canción o música a 125 dB es contaminación acústica si se escucha fuera de una sala de conciertos, de tu sótano insonorizado o de tu todoterreno".
Nafikiri nimekosa hoja. Nasema tena kwa uwazi: "Wimbo au muziki kwenye 125dB ni uchafuzi wa kelele ukipatikana nje ya ukumbi wa tamasha au basement yako isiyo na sauti au SUV."
I have a theory that at least some of them haue never experienced silence, between muzak everywhere, earphones, and similar sources of irritation. A side effect is that they genuinely don't know how loud they are. I would recommend trying some meditation or at least listening to the sounds of silence... and turning off the YouTube, TV, and other noisemakers. Of course, I'm not sure anyone would hear me...
Similar to how true darkness is a rarity - you need to actively MAKE dark unless you are in a cave, perhaps.
I shouldn't be, but I remain surprised at the number of people with airpods wedged into their ears as they "go for a walk." They want to be "out in the natural world" I suppose, and yet they replace sounds of the natural with the "playlists of their lives." Ugh
Yes, and as pointed out elsewhere in the comments, it's unsafe. If I am driven to wear headphones/earbuds for some reason in public, I never have more than one ear covered. Even that's highly unlikely, but if you have both ears occluded anyone can come up on you and you'll never know.
In the "Big City," that can be fatal.
I truly hate noise pollution. Strangely enough, some sociologic types have made efforts to connect a love of peace and quiet with racism or classism. About three years ago, Xochitl Gonzalez wrote an essay for the Atlantic titled "Why Do Rich People Love Quiet?" defending noisy ethnic enclaves and stating, "The sound of gentrification is silence." Then she made the mistake of complaining about noise making it difficult for her to work. Social media was not kind to her. (She seems to have deleted her comments about this.)
I’ve never been a rich people in my life (wouldn’t mind trying it though) and have always treasured peace and quiet. Especially in the woods.
Gah, Alice! I had to go and google Xochitl Gonzalez.
Her 2022 seminal and viral essay "Why Do Rich People Love Quiet?" on Gentrification of Noise explores the relationship between class and noise and the desire of the wealthy to impose their norms on others. It was a finalist for the Pulitzer Prize and it inspired a study at the University of Connecticut that tracked the movements of Latine and white students on campus to measure their preference for noise. In 2025, Gonzalez coined the phrase "Comfort Class," a term to describe "people who were born into lives of financial stability" whose "disconnect from the lives of the majority has expanded to such a chasm that their perspective—and authority—may no longer be relevant."
--------------------------------------------------
I guess we must be these intolerant rich people gray man types like the image in Xochitl's article: https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2022/09/let-brooklyn-be-loud/670600/ Rich, judgmental, racist, xenophobic, ethnocentric, classist, intolerant.... No, I don't think so. I recall as a small child in the 1950s my parents muttering "some people's children" and know exactly what they meant and not wanting to be like those kids who poop where they eat. Kittens and puppies learn manners. Why can't kids? I don't think it is too far-fetched to say that Western Civilization depends upon it.
"Kittens and puppies learn manners. Why can't kids?" Oooo, I have to steal this!
Like animals in the zoo, only the animals have better manners.
Well, when you run out of plausible things to call racist, what are you going to do? Give up calling things racist?
While the rest of the trip was substandard for Obvious Reasons, one of the few things I liked about being in Saudi Arabia and Iraq back in '91 was that we were only maybe 50 or so miles from the middle of nowhere (where nowhere was defined as the Arabian Peninsula). I can remember getting off of the helicopter at our first assembly area there, doing a slow 360, and realizing that I was the tallest terrain feature as far as my eye could see.
We'd (obviously) have to stand guard overnight, but being out there in the silence and just being able to soak it in... And the stars at night were absolutely spectacular. No light pollution. No sound pollution. That small part of it was almost worth the price of admission.
The other thing that gets me is that so many of these people (if they're not listening to their music loudly enough to annoy) have earbuds/cans over their ears. Like I said on one of Ian's posts a while back - your ears are the only mid-distance, 360 degree sense you have. Women in particular need to be aware of their surroundings, and the number of them that I see hunched over in their hoodies with headphones on would be enough to drive my old Hapkido master to distraction. There are those out there that say bone conduction headphones are okay, as they don't interrupt sound coming in. In my opinion, they're better for situational awareness, but still not good. Your brain (consciously or not) is going to be distracted by the music and is not going to be actively listening.
Correcting (probably) unintentional rudeness is not rude in and of itself. It is a public service.
Morality and the rules of common behavior must be trained and enforced.
Way back when, military theaters used to play the national anthem before the show began. Everyone was expected to stand up, doff hats (if any), remain, silent, and salute. Teenagers who failed to do so were smacked by whomever was handy.
I live adjacent to https://www.acltweb.org/ and I have often noticed the same things. I usually walk alone with my hound, and other than giving him quiet commands I enjoy my silence. I am amazed at how loud some groups are.
Looks like kayaking heaven.
Yes also great trails.
Although it would be preferable if people didn't talk loudly while walking outdoors - including certain of my family members who, sigh, probably don't realize how loud they are, and yes, you continue to exist if you stop speaking for a while, and announcements of, "There you go!" as if I'd asked for something are really annoying, so please stop projecting ... um, where was I ...
Oh, right: I think there's a difference between "humans conversing live" and any kind of artificially generated noise, including one side of a phone conversation. It's nice if the former has a lower volume - so many people are in denial about their hearing loss, speaking of family members - but at least it's natural sound produced by carbon-based life forms.
I've been driven nuts for decades by jerks who think that entire city blocks must listen to their music along with them.
Happened to me at Muir Woods. Muir Woods!!!!
Please STFU already. Some of us go outside for peace and quiet.
I think some people are afraid of silence so they fill it with loud conversations, music, whatever, just to keep it and whatever bothers them, at bay.
Preach! We hates it, too. People in public having full-volume phone conversations (extra points of they have it on speaker). People watching videos in the waiting room at the dentist etc. The kids fixated on noisy screens at the grocery store is nuts, especially if they're big enough to be walking around and helping.
Different strokes and dynamics. I love silence and just the birds or critters scritching in the undergrowth myself. The sound of a totaly quiet house.
Sadly my house has a wife that cant sleep without the white noise of a fan and children that will turn tv on as background noise, though they say they are watching it as they draw or do stuff on their phone. Its a constant battle to keep the noise levels to a low rymble. I try to be fair about it as they live here too. 😀
For my wife its survival white noise, for me it is anti survival as it limits my hearing whats happening outside at night.
Life is a compromise i have found usually no one is perfectly happy but no one wants to kill the others either.
I do enforce quiet time for evenings around 830 ish where tv goes off and head phones are mandatory or switch to a book.
As for public noise. It can be very very intrusive. Courtesy on the trails, i would bet the majority dont know the unweitten rules, probably a lot dont even know the written ones. I know i wasnt aware of at least one you mentioned being a problem.
Maybe write a small phamplet on trail etiquette and silently hand it offenders with out a confrontation and keep moving. Education might reduce your incidences you deal with over time. Even better maybe see if city/ park etc would be ok with a nice wooden plaque or sign with suggested Courtesy and safety rules set at head of trail/s
Please pass pedestrians on bike in safe manner
please use head phones or earbuds instead of boom box
please talk in low/soft voice on trails to not scare wildlife away.
Not sure what it all would be but i bet a lot dont even know there are unwritten reles much less what they are
I think there are 2 issues going on simultaneously. For sure, one of them is the absolute discourteousness of others who drown you in their unwanted sound. But the other is more personal - the level at which my mind is over-stimulated and I can no longer process normally (or at all). This is probably at different levels for different people - mine is quite low.
(((Cedar))) rude. Yes. Were they rude first? Yes. Is that a kindergarten way of dealing with this issue? Yes and no IMO - people who object to needless noise (count me in) need to speak up as politely but firmly as they can! And I think this was as polite was you were able to be at that moment. I am sure that many noisy people simple don't know they're being too noisy - they're surrounded by it in their daily lives, and have turned up their voices and their music so they can hear it - I think most people would apologize and turn it down if nicely asked. We've all snapped. Don't dwell on it. You're not wrong that their noisiness was inappropriate!
every year I have a hearing test at work. every year they point out to me that I have severe hearing damage. and every year I smile and say yes. I have noticed. if you can't get the world to shut up, shutting it out is perfectly legitimate
The incident you mention is part of the reason (when weather and work allow) I like to get my walks in at night.
Rock and roll ain't noise pollution!
At 125dB it is if encountered outside a concert venue or your sound-proofed basement or SUV. I am mindful of Radio Raheem in the 1989 movie, Do The Right Thing, which the critics deemed one "of the greatest films of all time". I disagree, though it might have been a good PSA or documentary. Under the ADA I'm claiming my misophonia as justification. ☺
My 80 ish year old neighbor cranks the music in his car. As he goes down the shared drive you can feel the bass in the house. It transient. Just a few seconds ... so not really irritating. Does let us know he is still alive every few days.
Similarly, there are us geezer drivers who leave our turn signals on for miles and miles. The problem in both cases, Grumpy, is that the driver is deaf. I can't hear the solenoid clacking that makes the blinker blink and your neighbor just wants to hear his 8-track tape of Carmina Burana. I have more patience with geezers than small children these days.
We grew up pretty poor and drove beaters with one ear tuned to the sounds the car made going down the road. The idea was to catch something "going wrong" before it really broke. Then we'd head home, report in to the mechanic (Dad) and do something about fixing it. I still listen to the car even though that requires hearing aids these days. Drives my wife crazy. She was a singer and in theater. Always has the volume up and signs along ...
it's a SONG. Chill.
Missing the point, I think. I say again for clarity: "A song or music at 125dB is noise pollution if encountered outside a concert venue or your sound-proofed basement or SUV."
Mi kredas, ke mi maltrafas la ĉefan punkton. Mi ripetas por klareco: "Kanto aŭ muziko je 125dB estas brua poluo se oni trovas ĝin ekster koncertejo aŭ via sonizolita kelo aŭ sportkamioneto."
Creo que no lo has entendido. Lo repito para que quede claro: "Una canción o música a 125 dB es contaminación acústica si se escucha fuera de una sala de conciertos, de tu sótano insonorizado o de tu todoterreno".
Nafikiri nimekosa hoja. Nasema tena kwa uwazi: "Wimbo au muziki kwenye 125dB ni uchafuzi wa kelele ukipatikana nje ya ukumbi wa tamasha au basement yako isiyo na sauti au SUV."
M'kay?